Legendary Pokémon

First of all,let me tell you a few things about the team building process.A few weeks before the 2nd greek tournament started,I did not have any team I could rely on,so I decided to make one.I talked about this with ATG,and we narrowed our options down to a team based on Gyarados (Rotom Formes not existing in the wi-fi metagame was a certain plus) and a Tyranitar based team.As you can see,my/our decision was to base the team on Tyranitar,due to no Stealth Rock weakness.

So first came,of course,Tyranitar.and more specifically a Dragon Dance variation,which can easily sweep if it finds a few free turns to use DD.

The first problematic Pokemon for Tyranitar that came to mind was Scizor,the number 1 overused Pokemon,which we expected to see a lot.And to be honest,dealing with in kinda became an obsession.

The 1st counter-Scizor measure was to lure it out and kill it early on.So Gengar was the way to go,serving as a great lure.This Gengar is a MysticGAR set,made exactly for this purpose,with Protect to scout CBScizor's move of choice and either HP Fire it to oblivion or switch to...

Magnezone.This thing can trap steels,that's what it's good at.It works great with Gengar if CBScizor tries to Bullet Punch,and not only then.A great Pokemon in general imo at least.

With 3 spots left,what was needed was a lead,a revenge killer,and possibly some defence as well.

The chosen lead was Roserade,since most of TTar's counters do not like the toxic spikes it provides the team with.

The revenge killer/check to most things was Latias,a scarf variant more specifically.

Last but not leaστ came Swampert,both to set up Stealth Rock and to help the team defensively.


So for a closer look.



Flowerful (Roserade) (M) @ Focus Sash*Shiny
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire 70]

Ingame IVs:19 / 31 / 10 / 30 / 27 / 30

A classic sleep lead,designed to sleep (is this the right word here) the opposing lead and then proceed to set some toxic spikes,preferrably 2 layers,or use Leaf Storm against most enemies I need to attack.Leaf Storm should not be underestimated,it's very powerful in action.HP Fire is mainly for Scizor (remember the obsession?) and Forretress,as well as Jirachi.

Problematic match ups include Jirachi (flinch-hax for the lose),Lum/Chesto berry leads (Tyranitar[although it's weak to Leaf Storm,it has Sand Stream],Metagross etc),and Infernape.

Item:Focus Sash to survive at least one attack and either 2HKO some foes or sleep them.

The nick:It was basically an idea of ATG that I liked.


Magneto (Magnezone) @ Shuca Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass 70]
- Explosion

Ingame IVs:30 / 31 / 27 / 30 / 31 / 31

Magnezone's role has been described before.Substitute is mostly used when facing steel types locked in their Steel type moves,enabling me to either use Thunderbolt or Explosion on another foe I can't do major damage to,or to avoid status.Explosion is also frequently used against Blissey,cause I hate the pink fat thing,and on Latias,cause nothing else can really touch her.

Item:Leftovers is what I still usually use,to make some more Subs and make some 2HKOs to 3HKOs.Shuca berry though was what I used for the tournament due to the item clause,and it proved itself to be useful in the final.

The nick:It was the best I could think of...
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FearMeh (Gengar) (M) @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire 68]

Ingame IVs: 31 / 4 / 31 / 30 / 31 / 30

Gengar...Rarely do I build a team without Gengar;it absolutely has to be my favorite special sweeper.Its purpose is to lure Scizor and deal with it,as well as perform general special sweeping.Shadow Ball for a stab plus Psychics/Ghosts,Focus Blast for coverage and especially opposing TTars,and HP Fire for steels,mostly those neutral to Focus Blast.

Item:Life Orb was what I originally used,but Expert Belt has recently been of great help,not only because of the lack of recoil,but some times also helping me bluff a Choice set.

The nick:A friend's online name ,plus a name I had thought of for an Arceus (then spellt as FearMe).
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Despair (Tyranitar) (M) @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Crunch
- Stone Edge

Ingame IVs:25 / 31 / 22 / 27 / 26 / 31

The star of the show.Give him the time for some Dragon Dances,and he's got a sweep ready.Crunch and Stone Edge are two powerful STAB moves,also having good coverage.Fire Punch for Scizor and other steels.

Item:Babiri Berry,for Scizor's Bullet Punch and random steel moves from Jirachi,Magnezone and the likes.

The nick:Despair is I guess what my opponents feel when I can Dragon Dance a few times with this guy here.
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Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Item:Choice Scarf
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Ingame IVs:29/2/29/29/31/31

My revenge killer,able to OHKO Salamence (plus most other stuff) with Draco Meteor coming from a great attack stat.Thunderbolt is mostly used to revenge kill Gyarados,outspeeding most of them even at +2.Surf is for Heatran,Infernape,and good neutral coverage.Trick to get rid of the Scarf and cripple some wall with it.


Item:Choice Scarf cause it's a Revenge Killer,it needs the speed.

The nick:It's just Latias,got her in a trade.


JustBlue (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Ingame IVs:21 / 29 / 31 / 30 / 25 / 9

Probably the only thing in the team that can take a few hits.Mixed Swampert Lead set used not as a lead.Stealth Rock for the invaluable residual damage,Surf and Earthquake for Stab and great coverage,Ice Beam for the Dragons.

Item:Leftovers for added survivability.

The nick:JustBlue,another online friend of mine,plus it fits this thing.


Main problems the team faces:

1)Roserade failing to do its job.It's unfortunately unreliable,but I don't really like the idea of giving toxic spikes up.

2)Losing Latias early:If I for some reason (Pusuit when locked in the wrong team most probably) lose Latias early on,it's not unlikely that I get swept.

PS:EVs are not explained due to being standard.

Ok,that's all about the team,I hope it was not too tiring,and also that you liked the team.I'd be grateful if you could help me with the main problems and spot some additional problems,but I think I would have spotted any big problems after 2-3 months of using the team.

PS2:I plan on using this team both on Shoddy and on wi-fi,so if you are to suggest some shoddy exclusive Pokemon (Rotom Formes),it's still ok,although I'll have to make do with an alternative on wi-fi.



With Latias getting banned (at least on smogon's tier list),there is nothing I can do but retire the team.It's been my most successful team ever (my only team that has has had any degree of success actually ).I just think I should post the latest version of the team that I used on Shoddy,which was the most suitable version for the metagame just before Latias got banned with all the Scarf Tyranitars around.There is actually only one major difference but anyway...

Edits in bold.After having used ~15 versions of this team,it finally bites the dust.Rest in Peace .

*Bump*

Any comments?31 views,no posts,is it that bad?

personally i would remove HP from Gengar and i would put him/her Hypnosiss

and for latias it would be better if you remove trick and put her recover


that's my opinion......it's your call if you will make some changes.

(23-02-2010 06:07 PM)GIANNIS Wrote: [ -> ]personally i would remove HP from Gengar and i would put him/her Hypnosiss

and for latias it would be better if you remove trick and put her recover

* hypnosis has 60 accuracy, making it useless except if u are a gambler
* latias has a choice scarf so recover is useless. trick should remain

as i said is his opinion if he will make the changes...

also hypnosiss is a good solution to escape from a difficult position even if you are not a gambler !!!

P.S. i didn't saw Choice scarf

Well, I don't see any problems(except for Magnezone's nickname :P), I'll edit if I come up with any suggestions.

About hypnosis:1)Ιt is inaccurate 2)Roserade has sleep powder(and sleep clause would prevent gengar from doing its job) 3)Toxic spikes exist(making poisoned pokemon fall asleep isn't possible)
Also just as GS stated, the set's purpose is to counter scizor so HP fire is a must ;)

The only thing I don't really like is Swampert. It's your only defensive Pokémon, it lacks a recovery move and comes with a 4x weakness. I can't see if it will work without having tested it, but you could try the classic combo of a defensive Celebi and a Scarf'd Heatran over Swampert and Latias, their weaknesses are perfectly covered by the rest of the team and Celebi has a way to recover. Plus, Heatran can come into anything that Roserade attracts, be it Metagross's/Scizor's Bullet Punch, Jirachi's Iron Head or Infernape's/Azelf's Flamethrower.

About Toxic Spikes now, in order to take full effect and outdamage the normal Spikes, they need time, that's why I don't use them much on offensive teams. Spikes would be way better imo, too bad Spikes+Sleep Powder is illegal on Roserade.

I just thought of something...I don't know if it's a good idea,but I'll say it.

Why not to use a Jirachi as a defensive Pokemon?Swampert and Jirachi cover each other's weak points well and Jirachi's Wish is a way for to recover Swampert's HP.Also,Jirachi takes no damage from the sandstorm created by Tyranitar's Sand Stream.

If you want to keep Latias why don't you give her Leftovers (give Rindo Berry or something) and replace Trick with Recover.

Sounds stupid,huh?
Anyway,I just said some possible solutions...

(24-02-2010 01:07 AM)Ninjomewtwo Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing I don't really like is Swampert. It's your only defensive Pokémon, it lacks a recovery move and comes with a 4x weakness. I can't see if it will work without having tested it, but you could try the classic combo of a defensive Celebi and a Scarf'd Heatran over Swampert and Latias, their weaknesses are perfectly covered by the rest of the team and Celebi has a way to recover. Plus, Heatran can come into anything that Roserade attracts, be it Metagross's/Scizor's Bullet Punch, Jirachi's Iron Head or Infernape's/Azelf's Flamethrower.

About Toxic Spikes now, in order to take full effect and outdamage the normal Spikes, they need time, that's why I don't use them much on offensive teams. Spikes would be way better imo, too bad Spikes+Sleep Powder is illegal on Roserade.

Well,it's not really supposed to be an ever lasting wall,just to set up SR and take a few attacks,or sometimes just forced opposing Salamences not to DD twice so as not to risk Latias being outsped by them.

As for Heatran,the problem is it cannot revenge kill +1/2 Gyara and +1 Mence,which is the main reason Latias is used.

As for the spikes vs toxic spikes fact,I think you may be right.I only use it to make 3HKOs into 2HKOs most of the time,which Spikes I suppose could do too,although they don't help as much vs some set up walls/sweepers.

(24-02-2010 01:55 AM)Spyros Wrote: [ -> ]I just thought of something...I don't know if it's a good idea,but I'll say it.

Why not to use a Jirachi as a defensive Pokemon?Swampert and Jirachi cover each other's weak points well and Jirachi's Wish is a way for to recover Swampert's HP.Also,Jirachi takes no damage from the sandstorm created by Tyranitar's Sand Stream.

If you want to keep Latias why don't you give her Leftovers (give Rindo Berry or something) and replace Trick with Recover.

Sounds stupid,huh?
Anyway,I just said some possible solutions...

Latias is supposed to be extra fast to help against speed boosting sweepers mostly,so if it stays it stays the way it is.As for Jirachi,I don't know whose place it could use.



@Everyone:I am contemplating making Swampert the lead and ditching Roserade for Forretress,which can set up either Spikes or Toxic Spikes and explode.Any feedback on these ?

NM2,I remember about your suggestions and decided to test them.How do the following sets seem?They are pretty standard I guess...

Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
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without being an expert i think that flamethrower is better than fire blast.flamethrower has more accuracy and it is a powerful attack.In other hand fire blast is a REALLY powerful move but it has low accuracy.That's my opinion

Well,sometimes you have to take a risk.I don't think that Heatran would need to use a Fire-type move more than 8 times (which means that there's no problem with the PPs).


So,what's the difference between Flamethrower and Fire Blast (talking about power)?It is 25 points.It doesn't seem that much,but there is STAB which makes the difference bigger (37,5 points).


For instance,let's calculate the damage that would be inflicted to the same Pokemon (31 IVs,0 EPs HP and SpDef Gengar) from this Heatran's Flamethrower:

199-234 HP (76%-90%) - Clean 2HKO


What if the same Gengar was hit from the same Heatran's Fire Blast?

251-261 HP (96%-100%) - 77% Chance to 1HKO this Gengar (sure 1HKO if Stealth Rock is up)


If you use Flamethrower,then it's possible to get hit by Gengar's Focus Blast.Otherwise,this Gengar isn't a threat at all.

Not even mentioning what would happen if Flash Fire gets activated...


At least,that's my point of view

Now that Latias is uber again (well according to Smogon at least...) I have to retire this team.I updated the first post with the version I used lately,I hope everyone here liked this team .

Yeah... Now it's Uber again. But Scizor is not. Oh and Salamence is a suspect now. Soon there will be no Pokemon in the OU Tier. They are going to be either NU or Ubers.

finally. latias is uber again... it was so annoying at battles

@GS: u can switch latias for... another trick user. u know, like jirachi or somethin like that...