Legendary Pokémon

Full Version: Police violence/brutality in the world and Taksim square protest.
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
(03-06-2013 11:27 AM)Kingnothing412 Wrote: [ -> ](as for anonymous , i'm really starting to dislike what it's become , but that's an entirely different matter.)

What do you mean by your last post , 888?

What I mean is that Anonymous support the people who fight for their rights.Also,that pic was proof that it is too late for the Turkish government to expect them.That guy with the Guy Fawkes mask (the Guy Fawkes mask is,as you know,a symbol of Anonymous)
Anonymous won't do anything useful,if they do anything.The situation in Turkey seems like a civil war between fanatic muslims - supported by their state - and citizens.What is sad is that the religions are supposed to unite the people,not to put them fight.Just think how many religious wars were conducted in the past ; millions of people were killed to support a god that may not even exist.People don't seem to learn from their mistakes...

Edit: About anonymous : bravery is to support your ideas without hiding yourself,the opposite is fear.
(03-06-2013 11:27 AM)Kingnothing412 Wrote: [ -> ]i believe if the leader actually cared for the good of his country instead of his own only , it could. It just can never work because no one cares about the country.

If a dictator did care for the good of their people instead of their own ass, they wouldn't step up to be a dictator in the first place, ergo this is an impossible statement by all means.

Quote:Η Δημοκρατία δεν έχει πάντα δίκιο, αλλά είναι πάντα δίκαιη.
It doesn't quite translate that well: “Democracy isn't always right, but it is always right (=fair).”
The majority doesn't always chose the best options —as a matter of fact no–one would know which they are beforehand— but as long as it respects minorities, it's the best approximation of a fair society that humankind has thought of as of yet.

(03-06-2013 12:05 PM)8hachi8 Wrote: [ -> ]What I mean is that Anonymous support the people who fight for their rights.Also,that pic was proof that it is too late for the Turkish government to expect them.That guy with the Guy Fawkes mask (the Guy Fawkes mask is,as you know,a symbol of Anonymous)

As if Anonymous share anything beyond that movie prop; be it ideology or morals. There's no Anonymous —as in a grande activist group— just several small, unconnected groups that name themselves so.
(03-06-2013 02:56 PM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]If a dictator did care for the good of their people instead of their own ass, they wouldn't step up to be a dictator in the first place, ergo this is an impossible statement by all means.

Quote:Η Δημοκρατία δεν έχει πάντα δίκιο, αλλά είναι πάντα δίκαιη.
It doesn't quite translate that well: “Democracy isn't always right, but it is always right (=fair).”
The majority doesn't always chose the best options —as a matter of fact no–one would know which they are beforehand— but as long as it respects minorities, it's the best approximation of a fair society that humankind has thought of as of yet.

Right. i think i see where you're coming from now.

in witch case , the best option really is to flee to another country.
How exactly is fleeing the best option? More perplexing is how you came to that conclusion; through understanding that Democracy does not always make the best choises?
You seem to expect problems to self-resolve, as if by magic. In all honesty, I don't believe you're troubled about this country's or our people's problems, it's just your own problems you feel like running from.
(04-06-2013 11:22 PM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]How exactly is fleeing the best option? More perplexing is how you came to that conclusion; through understanding that Democracy does not always make the best choises?

It's not (just) the system i don't approve of , it's the people controlling it. Democracy pretty much means the whole nation has to do what the majority of the people want. What if you don't agree with the majority?

(04-06-2013 11:22 PM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]You seem to expect problems to self-resolve, as if by magic. In all honesty, I don't believe you're troubled about this country's or our people's problems, it's just your own problems you feel like running from.

no , i simply won't even try to solve them if nothing is going to change for me. and yes , about the second part. i mostly care for the general balance of the state. If the majority doesn't want that , what reason do i have to stay here? why should i try to embrace my own problem? I believe it's only sensible to immigrate to a state that agrees with your ideology more than this one.
Democracy does not mean equality. It means you do what the majority , the bigger crowd wants. (Of course , this all depends on who this bigger crowd is. It's the people that make every nation the nation it is , anyway).

The only problems i'm running from are the ones i don't need to solve , the ones that don't affect me.
You can't be saying that you care for the general balance of the state and at the same time saying that you won't try to solve its problems if they don't affect your life.Also,the mass cares about the society's problems - because society's problems are problems of everybody - but is unable to think how to solve them.Regarding Democracy,it means equal rights against the law and the right to vote for your representatives in the parliament .The majority gets the decision and the minority has to follow but you mustn't forget that majority and minority aren't stative things ; they continuously change,so the people who are minority in a topic become majority in another and thus,are treated just.You generally seem quite confused about what you do believe or the way you express your self gives out this impression.

P.S: I'd really like you to tell me a Republic where you'd like to immigrate because you agree with the people ideas..
(04-06-2013 11:22 PM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]How exactly is fleeing the best option?

(based on your question)
In my opinion the Greeks,who are immigrants,should unite in some years and come back in Greece to rebuild Greece from the zero.
I don't say it will be easy (it will be extremely hard),but I think we can do it.
(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]You can't be saying that you care for the general balance of the state and at the same time saying that you won't try to solve its problems if they don't affect your life.
it's as if you're implying we have any other option right now other than leaving the EU. I mean , otherwise , what? Just sit here and wait for no reason?

(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]Also,the mass cares about the society's problems - because society's problems are problems of everybody - but is unable to think how to solve them.
In other words , we're not going anywhere. because this society's problems , are the society itself. (The PASOK scandal , for instance.)

(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding Democracy,it means equal rights against the law
that's not what i'm seeing here. But then again , we said that earlier , that's mainly because we don't have democracy here.
(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]and the right to vote for your representatives in the parliament .
oh. that's nice. nice options we have , eh?

Would you mind telling me which of these people represent your views? Or who you think is worth supporting?

(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]The majority gets the decision and the minority has to follow but you mustn't forget that majority and minority aren't stative things ; they continuously change,so the people who are minority in a topic become majority in another and thus,are treated just.
But that just results in one massive vicious circle of chaos.

(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]You generally seem quite confused about what you do believe or the way you express your self gives out this impression.
Probably. i've never been good with defining my exact thoughts on a matter properly.

(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]P.S: I'd really like you to tell me a Republic where you'd like to immigrate because you agree with the people ideas..
At a glance , New Zealand , Denmark , Estonia , Iceland and Aland seem ok , to name a few.
By saying leaving the EU do you refer to the state or to the people ? If you refer to the state I am unable to answer responsibly enough as I don't have any mine knowledge on the topic - I mean I have no idea about economics apart from some tv shows I've seen.However,if you refer to the people I strongly disagree with you.If every worthy person - scientifically or just with the ability to define what's good and what isn't - leaves the country we will be completely destroyed as a country.I suppose that even though you don't seem to like Greeks in general,you care for our country because you love it as a place, you were brought up here and have friends .Becoming an immigrant isn't as simple as you may think,both economically and psychologically .First of all,you won't find a good job unless you are really good at what you do or work for less money than other people ; not to mention that you'll be more severely criticized about your job due to being a foreigner.Psychologically,you may face problems in the first period of you life abroad,due to having to adopt to the way the natives think and speak and you may even face problems with the climate of your new town.Regarding my words about democracy I think you misunderstood me.I was talking about the general way democracy works,not the way it works in Greece.Don't blame democracy as an idea because it doesn't work as good as it should in our country - btw, if we really didn't have democracy you'd have ended up in jail for saying it and our messages would be controlled(θέλω να πώ ότι θα περνούσαν από λογοκρισία).Democracy works best when the voters know what they are doing and not feel responsible about their actions.All in all,I don't think I've ever said democracy is perfect but this doesn't mean it's worse than monarchy,oligarchy or communism.

P.S: I don't support any current political party as none of them is worth it but I think that my ideas seem to be cental-left based.I think that democracy would work better without their existence,every person should represent his ideas and not the party's ones.
P.S.1: Could you explain me why you'd love to go to the countries you've mentioned and what made you want to go there ?
(05-06-2013 04:50 PM)Kingnothing412 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-06-2013 01:00 AM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]and the right to vote for your representatives in the parliament .
oh. that's nice. nice options we have , eh?

Would you mind telling me which of these people represent your views? Or who you think is worth supporting?


If we assume that you can't find any single person close to your beliefs among the 30 or so parties, then I suppose that as soon as you get of age, you'll be running as a candidate yourself.

Of course if your beliefs are as proper as you concieve them to be, you'll have no trouble at all persuading others.

Unfortunate as it is, human societies are much unlike the world of math and physics that you may have got used to through our educational system. It runs on estimates and approximations instead of austere and exact quantities.

Sure, one can flee and go somewhere better; where they will have absolutely no right of vote or opinion. So, what's the difference in letting others choose for you, whether it is your birth country or the country you've chosen to live in?

I am in no place to force my experiences upon anyone. I just wish you get drafted for electoral commissioner during the following elections, that's where you'll realise whether our democracy works or not; that's where you'll realise how one should respect —not obey of course— the majority's opinion, if they ever want their opinion to be respected.
(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]By saying leaving the EU do you refer to the state or to the people ?

The state. For the people , it's up to them. I'm just saying though , people have a lot more reason to immigrate , these days. (And they do.)


(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose that even though you don't seem to like Greeks in general,you care for our country because you love it as a place, you were brought up here and have friends .
Not sure what you mean here , but I care for the country's economy , mainly. I don't see us getting anywhere by just sitting here doing nothing. We're never getting rid of the debt at this rate. I mean , what we're paying off now if basically the interest , isn't it? and i don't see it getting any less anytime soon.


(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ].Becoming an immigrant isn't as simple as you may think,both economically and psychologically .First of all,you won't find a good job unless you are really good at what you do or work for less money than other people ; not to mention that you'll be more severely criticized about your job due to being a foreigner.

Economically , true. although it's arguably a worse option than staying here , to be fair. It's not like you'll find a job here any easier anymore now , is it? it all depends on the job though , of course. As for being severely criticized , that defers from country to country.

Psychologically , is up to the individual.

(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding my words about democracy I think you misunderstood me.I was talking about the general way democracy works,not the way it works in Greece.Don't blame democracy as an idea because it doesn't work as good as it should in our country
fair enough then.

(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]btw, if we really didn't have democracy you'd have ended up in jail for saying it and our messages would be controlled(θέλω να πώ ότι θα περνούσαν από λογοκρισία).
No , not necessarily. Not everything that isn't democracy bans freedom of speech.

(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]Democracy works best when the voters know what they are doing and not feel responsible about their actions.All in all,I don't think I've ever said democracy is perfect but this doesn't mean it's worse than monarchy,oligarchy or communism.
I fully agree. The opposite also applies for each of those systems as well though. it all depends on the type of people we're dealing with.

(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]P.S: I don't support any current political party as none of them is worth it
And you can't do anything at all to change that. How very democratic.

(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think that democracy would work better without their existence,every person should represent his ideas and not the party's ones.
Who doesn't , mate? That's basically why i'm saying we need to get rid of these people , or whatever sad excuse of a form of government we have now , at least.

(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]P.S.1: Could you explain me why you'd love to go to the countries you've mentioned and what made you want to go there ?
Their neutrality , mainly. Also , the fact that they're relatively small countries , smaller countries tend to be more stable in general from what i'm seeing. And they don't seem to have the problems we have here , generally ok economy and everything , and don't seem to have such a loud population. All in all , they don't seem to be as corrupt as other countries.

(06-06-2013 12:12 AM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]If we assume that you can't find any single person close to your beliefs among the 30 or so parties, then I suppose that as soon as you get of age, you'll be running as a candidate yourself.

Of course if your beliefs are as proper as you concieve them to be, you'll have no trouble at all persuading others.
Yeah , nah. I'd honestly prefer just leaving. I don't think i can trust the crowd. Or that i'm responsible enough. Besides , if i did somehow get up there , i couldn't throw the others out and start everything from scratch just like that , could i?

on a side note , i didn't even know it was that simple.

(06-06-2013 12:12 AM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunate as it is, human societies are much unlike the world of math and physics that you may have got used to through our educational system. It runs on estimates and approximations instead of austere and exact quantities.
I'm aware of that. not quite sure what you mean here though.

(06-06-2013 12:12 AM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, one can flee and go somewhere better; where they will have absolutely no right of vote or opinion.
What's the point though , the options all pretty much seem to be the same thing. Well , GD being the exception , but they'll cause other , new problems (if if they get rid of the current ones) no one wants to deal with.

(06-06-2013 12:12 AM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]So, what's the difference in letting others choose for you, whether it is your birth country or the country you've chosen to live in?
There isn't one. you may not agree with your birth country.

(06-06-2013 12:12 AM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]I am in no place to force my experiences upon anyone. I just wish you get drafted for electoral commissioner during the following elections, that's where you'll realise whether our democracy works or not; that's where you'll realise how one should respect —not obey of course— the majority's opinion, if they ever want their opinion to be respected.
thing is , the people up there aren't respecting the public's opinion now , are they?
(05-06-2013 06:41 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]Becoming an immigrant isn't as simple as you may think,both economically and psychologically .First of all,you won't find a good job unless you are really good at what you do or work for less money than other people ; not to mention that you'll be more severely criticized about your job due to being a foreigner.Psychologically,you may face problems in the first period of you life abroad,due to having to adopt to the way the natives think and speak and you may even face problems with the climate of your new town.

You're a bit wrong.You can find a good job.
I've heard that in Canada they're looking for young Greek people to work here.
Also,I've found a link that helps finding a job,but it's in Greek (I mostly say this for the people here who don't know Greek)
This is the link

As for the 1st days/weeks/months,I will ask my aunt about (she went to Scotland about a month ago and she will know).
Pages: 1 2
Reference URL's