Legendary Pokémon

Before Platinum, Garchomp seemed to have the same OU-or-Uber issues.
And this time, it's something else faster than Garchomp (and having both attack and sp.atk. above 100) that has the same issues.

Anyways, the reason why Garchomp was pushed to the Ubers is its ability, which makes countering difficult due to the evasion. Not only that, but it also has respectable HP, Defense, and Sp.Def.
And Shaymin-S have slightly lower HP, Defense, and Sp.Def compared to Chompy (just a difference of 8, 20, and 10 base points) and Shaymin-S having a slightly shallower movepool, so I guess Shaymin-S will be considered OU. And Shaymin-S is also hurt more by Stealth Rock and Sandstorm.

Both Chompy and Shaymin-S can Swords Dance though, and both too are double-weak to Ice, but Chompy can use the Yache berry effectively due to slightly higher HP and both of its defenses, and has higher attack stat to use swords dance effectively.

Although Shaymin-S is faster...
But can be revenge killed easily, especially Ice Shard.

Why is everybody here rather clueless.
Skymin can beat any counter slower then it by Haxxing it to death, anything faster will die beofre Skymin gets in.
And I don't even wanna talk about the SubSeeder...

I believe it must be an Uber 1st of all `cause of its powerfull Seed Flare move(STAB),2nd it has very good stats.Plus it can learn great moves that the land forme of Shaymin can`t learn.

but it has x4 weakness against ice type moves & its moveset isnt so great. so it must be OU.

(24-07-2009 10:07 AM)Chaos714 Wrote: [ -> ]but it has x4 weakness against ice type moves & its moveset isnt so great. so it must be OU.

This is BRILLIANT! Let's let Garchomp wreak havoc in the OU again!

There is a lot more to deciding a tier of a Pokemon than typing and movepool. Garchomp has a x4 weakness to Ice and a poor movepool. However, Garchomp is Uber ironically, due to his typing. He has only two weaknesses, which can typically be patched up with the Yache or Haban berry. Garchomp also resists Stealth Rock, is immune to Thunder Wave, and packs a lot of resistances thanks to his typing. Add that with Swords Dance, a solid dual STAB combination (Dragon+Ground is resisted only by Skarmory and Bronzong, both of which are 2HKOed by Outrage after 2 SDs,) and more overall bulk than Swampert, and you have yourself the definition of an Uber.

I am not trying to say however, that Chaos' argument is not entirely invalid. Skymin's movepool is rather lacking. Unlike Garchomp, Shaymin-S has a poor dual STAB. Albeit, Seed Flare and Air Slash make it the King of Hax (Jirachi is still Hax god however,) any Steel type can easily resist this combination. The other thing that Skymin lacks is a solid set-up move. Seed Flare tries to patch that up by dropping the foe's SDef, but that is unreliable at best and all the foe has to do to nullify its effects is switch.

Now let's move onto typing. Skymin's typing boasts an immunity to Ground, but that's about it. He has weaknesses to Rock (and therefore, SR,) Ice, Fire (which every team has due to Scizor,) and Flying, and is not immune to Thunder Wave (which prevents flinch HAX from getting into the way of countering Skymin.)

Lastly, let's move to bulk. as stated before, Skymin is SR weak, and does not boast many resistances. Therefore, priority attacks such as CB Lucario's Extremespeed, Scizor's Bullet Punch and Mamoswine's Ice Shard, whither Skymin down in chucks.

So in short- Lacking Movepool, mediocre Bulky, and poor typing= not Uber. I still maintain my position on Skaymin as OU.

well, I was thinking and I changed my mind... Shaymin-S must be placed in Uber Tier cause of its Brilliant Speed and very good Sp.Attack, and beside that it can learn the powerful Move Seed Flare wich with the STAB its base power is 180 and Leaf Storm wich with Stab has 210 base power(both Attacks have enough power to ΟΗΚΟ Groudon!(Calculated With Shaymin Neutral Sp.Attack Nature 252 Sp.Attack EP's and 31IV's and Groudon with Neutral Sp.Def nature 0 Sp.Def IV's)) So I believe that Shaymin-S Must be placed in Uber Tier.

The thing though with Shaymin-S is that once you outspeed it, it's done. And having so predictable a moveset(seed flare, earth power, air slash, hp ice/fire) doesn't help at all. Furthermore, just as ExplorerAce said, it is weak to the common stealth rock and can be easily KOed in a metagame where scizor's bullet punch, weavile's ice shard and lucario's extreme speed rule.
I have to admit though that hax can be annoying, but putting that aside shaymin can be countered. And its type isn't what I'd call ideal (except for the ground immunity of course)

(24-07-2009 07:22 PM)Johan Wrote: [ -> ]well, I was thinking and I changed my mind... Shaymin-S must be placed in Uber Tier cause of its Brilliant Speed and very good Sp.Attack, and beside that it can learn the powerful Move Seed Flare wich with the STAB its base power is 180 and Leaf Storm wich with Stab has 210 base power(both Attacks have enough power to ΟΗΚΟ Groudon!(Calculated With Shaymin Neutral Sp.Attack Nature 252 Sp.Attack EP's and 31IV's and Groudon with Neutral Sp.Def nature 0 Sp.Def IV's)) So I believe that Shaymin-S Must be placed in Uber Tier.

This is BRILLIANT AS WELL! PORYGON-Z FOR UBERS! SCEPTILE TOO!

There are TONS of Pokemon that can OHKO Groudon. There are also tons of Pokemon that are fast an high powered, including Tyranitar, Salamence (IMO, he's even scarier than Skymin.) The deal with Skymin is that, although he may be fast and powerful, he lacks the ability to "get over the heap," as you can see in the previous post I made.

Also, let me list Skymin's counters / Revenge killers against Garchomps:
Skymin Counters:
Regice
Registeel
ScarfHeatran (as long as he avoids Earth Power)
Charizard
Crobat
Scarf Infernape
Shaymin-S
Yanmega
ShucaGross

Garchomp Counters:
Steelix
Aggron
Everything else gets 2HKOed after 2 SDs if I recall correctly

Skymin Revenge Killers:
Lucario
Weavile
Scizor
Aerodactyl
Jolteon
Mamoswine

Garchomp Revenge Killers:
Mamoswine
Weavile
Latias
ScarfChomp
ScarfMence

Just pointing out that it is significantly easier to stop Skymin than Garchomp, showing that Shaymin is not half as bad as people have made him out to be.

shaymin sky forme is not uber