Hello all!
I am pretty new to the Pokemon TCG scene... Well, I played with the first generation cards as a child, but it seems that now things have gotten a bit more complicated and a lot more helpful Trainer, Supporter etc. cards have come out.
So, here's the thing. I'm looking to build a hearty Charizard deck. I have four Charizards already (The original Charizard, and Expedition Charizard, a Dark Charizard, and a Stormfront Charizard. I'm not sure if those are the exact names, though...) and a couple good Charmeleons, although I don't know the types because I don't have them with me at the moment. I also have three of the Snorlaxes that let you take four energies from the graveyard per turn. (Can you do that when Snorlax is benched?)
What I was looking for some advice on was complimenting Trainers, Supporters or Stadiums to go with this deck. Namely, some that would allow me to retrieve multiple energy cards, either from the deck or the discard pile, and some that will allow me to attach multiple energies at once. Also, would those Crystal Defender(?) series Charmeleons and Charizards, the ones with electric attacks, be a good idea to get my hands on, in the event that I should battle against a water-type deck? Also, how many energies should I have, (I know 20 is the norm, but Charizard is one big energy killer...) and should I have a better water defense in this deck?Also, Rare Candy and Luxury balls have been interesting me... Good choice? Bad choice?
Critique away! You guys are the pros, not me.
Thanks a lot!
Ok, first things first. Dark Charizard evolves from Dark Charmeleon, not Charmeleon, it cannot be used in the same evolution line as a normal Charizard. Secondly, 3 Charizard are enough. So, let's say you are building a deck around a 3-2-3 Charizard line.
Charizard is slow, that's sure. Needs 4 energies, is a stage 2 Pokémon and has a retreat cost of 3. So, if you want a good deck these are the things to look out for. A perfect card for making the deck quite faster is
Weavile from Secret Wonders. It can attach 2 Dark energies from the deck to Charizard (and Char makes 'em Fire-type with its Power/Body) AND can turn Charizard into the Dark-type for taking advantage of
Moonlight Stadium from Great Encounters. As for Charizard being a stage 2 Pokémon, the only thing you can do is drag the cards you need out of the deck as fast as possible. At least 3 Rare Candies must be used, as well as 4 Bebe's Search and a single Luxury Ball. Roseanne's Research brings out the basic Pokémon.
Claydol from Great Encounters is the standard drawing machine, if you have, use it.
Volkner's Philosophy is a weaker alternative as it uses up your turn's Supporter. If you start with Weavile, you'll most likely lose a prize before taking one, so
Upper Energy can be useful. As far as energy retrieving goes, Snorlax can do it, but you lose a turn in order to attack (no, Snorlax can't attack if it's benched). Night Maintenance can retrieve energies as can the old Energy Retrieval.
Soooo, summing it all up:
3-2-3 Charizard
3-2 Weavile
2-2 Claydol
7 Fire Energy
4 Special Dark Energy
4 Basic Dark Energy
3 Upper Energy
3 Rare Candy
3 Roseanne's Research
4 Bebe's Search
1 Luxury Ball
3 Night Maintenance
2 Moonlight Stadium
aaaaand some more all-around trainer cards that you find useful.
If you don't have Weavile, a good alternative is
Typhlosion from Mysterious Treasures in a 2-1-2 line, but you'll need to up your Rare Candies to 4. You'll also need to play only Fire Energies then, and you'll lose your Moonlight Stadium support. If you don't have Claydol, just use more searching and drawing trainers and supporters.
Ok, I dunno what else to suggest now, see what you can do with the cards above, and tell us which ones you have/lack so we can think of alternatives.
Wow, this sounds great!! I hadn't known about the Weavile/Stadium combo! That's perfect! So, Weavile can do it's Poke-Power when it's benched, right? Since Charizard has to be the active Pokemon to take advantage of the power? Can all Pokemon use their Poke-Power while benched? (God, I feel like such a noob for asking that. >_<)
Anyway, I pretty much have none of those cards, but I knew that would happen coming into this. (Note, I haven't bought any cards since the Fossil series.) But, I got those Chars on eBay because a couple of my friends are playing again. This deck sounds almost perfect.
But, wow, only 18 energies? That kinda surprised me. xD Anyway, is there a starter deck that I could buy that would have most of these things? Like Weaviles, Sneasels, and dark energies? That would make building this deck much faster than eBay. xD
But, since Claydol's type is kinda out there, and since I'd have to buy him separate, I think I might have to leave him out and have more Trainers/supporters, like you said. There aren't any Trainers that allow you to attach multiple energies to a single Pokemon in one turn? And would putting in Super Potions be a good idea, or are there better healing Trainers out there now? I am greatly concerned for the health of my Pokemon. xD
Thanks a lot man!
Weavile, and anything in general, can use Poké-Powers when in your bench, unless stated otherwise in the Power's text.
And yeah, 18 energy aren't that bad. In a Charizard-Weavile deck, your aim is to have 2 or even 3 Charizard ready to attack before your Weavile is taken out, so you can attack 2-3 times before having to re-pump them. Plus, Night Maintenance/Energy Retrieval/any such card can retrieve energies faster than Charizard discards them. If you play a Charizard-Typhlosion deck, consider using some cards for discarding energy from your hand (
Felicity's Drawing or Volkner's Philosophy) so that there are always energies in your discard pile that Typhlosion can attach to a benched Charizard. Something I didn't mention before, if you are not playing Weavile-Moonlight, definitely use Warp Point and/or Switch, the retreat cost of 3 is too much.
About the starter decks now. Weavile's in none of them. If you want Dark Energies, buy the Darkrai deck from Great Encounters, it also has 2 Roseanne's Research cards which you'll need.
As for Claydol, its type never matters. The only reason for its existence is its godlike Poké-Power. It will always stay in the bench and should never even have an energy attached to it. If you wanna buy it, just know it's own of the most expensive non-X cards right now.
So yeah, you may go with drawing trainers.
Aaaand, healing isn't that important. If your opponent can attack for 80, even if you heal 40 after the first hit, you're still 2HKO'd. It's just save the Pokémon or let it die. Check out Super Scoop Up, you may want it for saving the first Weavile or a Charizard later on.
EDIT.
Oh my God, I forgot about the card that combos perfectly with Charizard.
Heatran Lv.X from Stormfront. Just check the Heat Wave Poké-Power. Also, just saying, Heatran Lv.X comes in a
tin with 4 boosters in a good price, so it'll probably be easy to get. If you play it, go 2-2 with the normal Heatran and definitely add
Level Max from Platinum.
My God! That Heatran is PERFECT for Charizards! I will discard two fire energies with every attack with a Charizard, and the Heatran would be an easier set up than the Weavile/Moonlight combo!! Man, that is just fantastic. THANKS A LOT!!!
Okay, here's what I have theoretically got so far, with what I've bought online.
3-2-3 Charizard
3-2 Weavile
2-2 Heatran X
(No Claydol, he was WAY too expensive. xD)
7 Fire Energy
6 Basic Dark Energy
2 Special Dark Energy (Came in a set like that.)
3 Double-Colorless (From first edition cards, since they give you two colorless, no questions asked.)
And all of the suggested Trainers/Supporter/Stadium cards. :]
3 Switch Trainer
2 Gust of Wind Trainer
1 Nightly Garbage Run Trainer
Let me just verify something, though. You can use as many Trainers as you want in one turn, right? Also, I was thinking about maybe adding a 2-2 Magmortar in there, just for kicks. (My Magmar are first editions, and the Magmortar are from DP Secret Wonders, the ones that heal when you add a fire energy.) Should I avoid it? Or, seeing as how I've stumbled upon a Dark Charmeleon, would it be better to just throw in Dark Charizard as well? Also, Level Max isn't the only way to play a Lv. X Pokemon, is it? Don't you just treat it as another evolution? And, last question, can a Rare Candy take a normal Pokemon and evolve it into a Dark upper-stage Pokemon, or even a Lv. X Pokemon?
(17-10-2009 10:38 AM)SonicAdvDX Wrote: [ -> ]Let me just verify something, though. You can use as many Trainers as you want in one turn, right?
Trainers and Stadiums, yes. Supporters, only one per turn.
(17-10-2009 10:38 AM)SonicAdvDX Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I was thinking about maybe adding a 2-2 Magmortar in there, just for kicks. (My Magmar are first editions, and the Magmortar are from DP Secret Wonders, the ones that heal when you add a fire energy.) Should I avoid it? Or, seeing as how I've stumbled upon a Dark Charmeleon, would it be better to just throw in Dark Charizard as well?
When playing a lot of Pokémon lines, you run the risk of drawing the wrong Pokémon when you need it. Personally, I wouldn't add Magmortar. About Dark Charizard though, I don't know if it'll work. You can try it.
(17-10-2009 10:38 AM)SonicAdvDX Wrote: [ -> ]Also, Level Max isn't the only way to play a Lv. X Pokemon, is it? Don't you just treat it as another evolution? And, last question, can a Rare Candy take a normal Pokemon and evolve it into a Dark upper-stage Pokemon, or even a Lv. X Pokemon?
Playing a Lv. X Pokémon isn't evolving, it's leveling-up. You can only level-up your active Pokémon (read the text in the bottom of any Lv. X card). Since Heatran is a support Pokémon and not the attacker, it will probably be benched most of the time, and Level Max is the only way to level-up a benched Pokémon. Of course, with Switch and Weavile-Moonlight you can easily switch in and retreat, but yeah, Level Max still helps. And about Rare Candy, it can evolve Charmander into Dark Charizard, but can't be used for Lv. X Pokémon.
PS. Ok, I feel stupid forgetting the Double Colorless Energy.
You can also check out Boost Energy, 3 colorless energies for one turn and since Charizard would discard anyway, you can discard it. Also, since you're playing Heatran, use some more Fire energies, Heatran can only recover them, not Dark ones.
Haha, taking that Heatran info into account, I just got two Level Max. xD
How many Dark Energies should be replaced by Fire Energies, since I am going to be using Heatran? I mean, I was sure that I wasn't going to be using Weavile for it's attacks, just it's Power. And, I probably won't be using Heatran too much, either, once I set up Charizard, at least. xD
Also, I'm pretty sure this is true, because I kinda remember going this in the GameBoy TCG, but if you put a double colorless on Charizard, it counts as two fires, if I'm not mistaken. But, if I have to discard two energies for his attack, can I just remove the double-colorless and that's it? I don't actually need to remove two CARDS, right? Just technical energies?
I'd say about 10 Fire, 6 Dark, 2 Double Colorless. Remember, Heatran can only recover Fire energies, so that's what you will be discarding. About Heatran, yes, it should stay benched. Weavile though has that awesome Shadow Charge attack, letting you attach 2 Dark energies to Charizard. That's three energies per turn, enough to set up Charizard fast.
And about the discarding part, it depends on what the attack text says. There are cards that say "energy" and others that say "energy cards". The
Base Set Charizard is tricky though. While the ooooold card says "energy cards", it has been recently
reprinted in Stormfront and the text now says "energy". So, even for the old Charizard, it's now "energy". Also, retreating is treated as "energy".
Okay, all I have to do now I wait for all those Trainers, Energies, Weavile, and Heatran to come in the mail...
Still, I am concerned about being absolutely brutalized by any average water-type deck. Is there any really great defense against water decks that can be implemented with this deck, or would I just be pretty much screwed? xD I mean, really, any 60-damage attack could obliterate my best Charizard, and that would be kinda lame...
Also, I think I kinda stumbled upon a sneaky technicality in Heatran X's Power... It says that whenever a fire Pokemon discards fire energies, that you can attach up to two energy CARDS to that Pokemon. Does that mean, theoretically, I could put two double-colorless energies on a Pokemon, and basically get 4 fire energies put back onto a Charizard? Also, Heatran X can't take the energies back from the graveyard, so once I use the first move, I basically better have two energies in my hand already, right?
Weavile can recover energies from the graveyard, but only dark energies... How could I get fire energies back from the graveyard, if I ever needed them?
I really can't thank you enough, you have just been endlessly helpful with this thread for me. :]
(18-10-2009 10:00 AM)SonicAdvDX Wrote: [ -> ]Still, I am concerned about being absolutely brutalized by any average water-type deck.
Bubble Coat and
Holon Energy FF are the only things that cross my mind now. I'm sure there are more weakness-blocking cards though. I'd prefer Bubble Coat from the two since you are already pretty fine with Energy and Holon Energy FF is neither searchable nor retrievable via Heatran.
(18-10-2009 10:00 AM)SonicAdvDX Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I think I kinda stumbled upon a sneaky technicality in Heatran X's Power... It says that whenever a fire Pokemon discards fire energies, that you can attach up to two energy CARDS to that Pokemon. Does that mean, theoretically, I could put two double-colorless energies on a Pokemon, and basically get 4 fire energies put back onto a Charizard? Also, Heatran X can't take the energies back from the graveyard, so once I use the first move, I basically better have two energies in my hand already, right?
Heatran can't recover DCE. The Power activates only if you discard Basic Energy cards (DCE is a Special one) and it says
"attach up to 2 of those Energy cards", meaning it can only recover what was disrcarded. Something I didn't know though is that it can recover basic Dark energies, which sends us back to the initial plan of
7 Fire Energy
6 Basic Dark Energy
2 Special Dark Energy
3 Double-Colorless
which is pretty much perfect.
(18-10-2009 10:00 AM)SonicAdvDX Wrote: [ -> ]Weavile can recover energies from the graveyard, but only dark energies... How could I get fire energies back from the graveyard, if I ever needed them?
I really can't thank you enough, you have just been endlessly helpful with this thread for me. :]
Weavile doesn't retrieve energies from the discard pile, just from the deck. Energies from the discard pile are to be recovered by Heatran. If you can't build Heatran early in the game, Night Maintenance, Holon Farmer and Palmer's Contribution can put basic energy cards back into the deck.
And you're welcome, glad to hear it.
Okay, so I have yet to get all of the cards in the mail that I've ordered, but I've gotten a few and I've made a deck and already won a couple battles with it. Now, this is far from what we had planned earlier, this is just what I'm going to use until I have all of the cards for an ideal deck. But, here's what I set up with what I already had...
4-3-4 Charizard (The Charizards I mentioned before... I'm still waiting for my Rare Candies)
3-3 Magmortar (The one I mentioned before.)
3 Snorlax (With Pick and Collect for gathering discarded energies)
4 Switch (Has proved to be VERY helpful)
3 Roseanne's Research
3 Super Potion
2 Potion
2 Gust of Wind (For when I want a free kill. xD)
2 Pokemon Trader
1 Imposter Oak's Revenge
1 Nightly Garbage Run
1 Bill
(Here's where you're gonna want to kill me. xD)
19 Fire Energy
3 Double Colorless
I know that's a whole lot of Energies, but when the only thing I really have to recover them is a lousy Snorlax, what can I do? Anyway, my greatest defense that I've been able to set up so far has been Magmortar, surprisingly enough. Flame Blast is always a 1-Hit KO, once I attach 5+ Energies to it, and he's got great health and never discards energies... He's a beast! Snorlax takes too many energies to attack, so I usually put him out when I'm low on energy cards, use Pick and Collect a few times and then use a Switch card to bring him back.
Anyway, go ahead and critique it. I'm still probably going to go with the deck you originally planned on, but if this deck that I'm using now has given you any inspiration, go ahead and shout it out. :]
Ok, it's not bad, there's a strategy behind the deck so it's good. And there's no rule that says you need less energy, if 22 works for this deck, that's what you go for. Some points though. If you don't have Rare Candies, playing 4-3-4 lines is pointless, there will be a Stage 2 you'll never be able to play. Go for a 4-4-4 line. Also, for speed purposes, add as many Bill cards as you have. The faster you draw, the faster you set-up. Magmortar is cool, and while the Flame Blast attack can be a killer, don't forget about the Bazooka thing (don't remember the name xD). Most Pokémon around have 120+ HP, they won't fall to Charizard's hits for 100. Adding some damage to benched Pokémon will bring them to Charizard's OHKO range. Oh, and Super Potion. If I remember correctly, it needs you to discard an energy card. You already have trouble with discarding and recovering, you don't wanna discard even more. You could take 'em out for more Bill or Gust of Wind cards if you have any. And yes, Gust of Wind is, in my opinion, the most broken card ever.
Yeah, I was aware of the 4-3-4 problem, but I had previously been on a 4-3-3 set, and then I received another Charizard and haven't been back home to get a fourth Charmeleon. (I'm in college, and I left my extra cards at home.) I'm pretty sure I should have more Bills, it's certainly not like he was ever a rarity, and I need to find some more Gusts of Wind. (That card seriously is way too cheap. xD) And the only reason I ever really used Super Potions was for healing my Snorlax if I needed to grab more energies for just one more turn, but I can do without them definitely. I usually just let my Charizard and Magmortar attack until they die unless I have a Switch card handy.
Just for future reference, though, when I get my 3-3 Weavile and 2-2 Heatran and 3 Moonlight Stadiums (And possibly some Night Maintenance... How many should I get of those?), what cards do you think I should leave out of this deck in order to put them all in there? (Snorlax will go no doubt. Both card combos will pretty much make him entirely useless.) I mean, having so few Fire Energies would really kinda take Magmortar's OHKO out of the picture... Unless I could summon the Charizard that turns ALL of my Pokemon's energies into Fires, but that's asking for a coincidence of miraculous levels. xD
EDIT:
One more thing, is there a comprehensive, easy to navigate website where I can find out which series (Classic, Rocket, Stormfront, etc.) each cards are from? OR maybe something where I can search for pictures of all the Charizard cards and I can derive the series name by that? I would just like to know what series cards are so I can know what series to buy from the store. :]
no 3-3 weavile no use.
i play 2-2 AND everyone know that.
and about moonlight i suggest 2 or i suggest one if u have scott or other suporter-stadium engine
night maintenance number is defferent in every deck heavy pokemon discarding have 3( i mean decks that you r loosing often ur pokemon by kos)
stable stage 2 have 2
a few deck have only 1
so i suggest 2.
update your deck list so i can help you even more.
Okay, here's my deck so far. Tell me what I should take out, because I'm going to be getting 4 Moonlight Stadiums soon.
3-2-3 Charizard
2-2 Weavile
2-2 Heatran X
3 Rare Candy
3 Bebe's Search
3 Night Maintenance
3 Gust of Wind
3 Switch
2 Level Max
2 Pokemon Trader
2 Roseanne's Research
1 Luxury Ball
1 Bill
9 Fire Energies
5 Dark Energies
3 Special Darkness
3 Double Colorless
Critique away. :] I just want to know what I should take out for Moonlight Stadiums and if there are better drawing cards. I need to get my Pokemon on the bench faster. MUCH faster.
EDIT:
Also, I've decided to put in a 2-2 Claydol line. I think that Moonlight Stadium is pretty much going to completely replace Heatran's Power, maybe if I will add another Weavile if I do decide to get rid of Heatran and make it a 3-3 Weavile line, 3-2-3 (or 4-2-4) Charizard, and 2-2 Claydol.
But I don't know! Tell me what would be the best use of valuable card space! :]