Hello people of the wonderful world of legendary pokemon. With indecision 2012 coming soon, I have no doubt been thrust into the less wonderful world of republican politics. Needless to say, I cannot believe the NERVE of some of those guys. Newt Gingrich, the guy who divorced his wife with cancer, was right up there as one of the worst. Santorum was a gay hater. Rick Perry was stupid, a mormon hater, and way too southern. Mitt Romney (or "mittens") is a C list candidate in a field of D lists. Herman Cain was a pervert. And so it goes. Anyways, I was just wondering, what are politics like over in Greece? Are they about the same as ours, are they less extreme, or are they super extreme?
God, politics in Greece... Apart from a great dose of uselsness, an insatiable hunger for money and corruption, the only thing that is pretty characteristic of our politicians is that they make sure that their friend and relatives will occupy the easiest and most well-paid jobs in the police force, the army, goverment, educating system, hospitals etc (aka ρουσφέτι in greek).
If you want to know about the dominant parties, they are Νέα Δημοκρατία (literally New Democracy in english), ΠΑΣΟΚ (socialistic party), KKE (communist party) and some others, not really important. The 2 first ones actually prevail in the parliament (Βουλή των Ελλήνων in greek) and do pretty much whatever they want. The fight between these two is similar to Democratics/Republicans who have there in the USA (you are from the USA, right?). They both claim to be diferent and better than the other one but in fact they are the same shit.
And also, our political system is a bit diferent than yours, main diference that the president isn't that powerfull in the goverment as yours is. I think at least
Wow...so its just as screwed up as over in the US? My older bro is gonna look into this whole political system in greece.
^
Well, good luck to him. Just to know, even though democracy was first used in ancient Athens, today's Greece democracy is far more than being the ideal political system. Actually, it's just like every other's country, just a bit more corrupted and useless.
Well okay. Tomorrow maybe you could tell me about some political candidates.
People vote politicians, mind.
Corruption of the political "system" stems from the corruption of the society itself.
I hope the next time people submit their votes -or even when we, youngsterns, become adults- they will remember that they are also to blame. We have the liberty to judge others, but do we have the liberty to neglect our own mistakes? It's nice putting the blames on others, but come on now...
Giratina88,you're very lucky when it comes to politics.The reason is pretty simple: USA has significant impact on everything it happens around the world because its politicians were trying to do the best for their country(although this is often destructive for other countries such as Iraq,Afghanistan etc.),something that doesn't happen in Greece.In Greece,politicians are always looking for the best way to make benefit of situations.It's evident that simple citizens have also contributed to create the current problems by voting the politicians or by not paying taxes.To sum up,i think that you should always want the best for your country(politicians included) but if you look to what happens in other countries like Greece or Italy you will feel a bit better.
(30-01-2012 11:25 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]Giratina88,you're very lucky when it comes to politics.The reason is pretty simple: USA has significant impact on everything it happens around the world because its politicians were trying to do the best for their country(although this is often destructive for other countries such as Iraq,Afghanistan etc.)...
Then may I remind you that a large percentage of people in the USA doesn't have free medical care only because they aren't rich enough? The American Dream exists only for a minority.
I don't want to repeat myself. I told you my thoughts about how politics concerns both politicians and citizens. The truth of the matter is, we are lucky in the sense that -apart from the problems our country is facing for whatever reasons- we have free education and hospitalization (although people DO pay for them through taxes, aren't they?). Americans don't. Weird, huh? Not bad, though.
And yet somehow, the richest people in our country are EXEMPT from taxes. No wonder they get so much money.
(31-01-2012 12:10 AM)Giratina88 Wrote: [ -> ]And yet somehow, the richest people in our country are EXEMPT from taxes. No wonder they get so much money.
Same goes for every country.
Really? I though scandinavian countries managed to resolve that issue?
(31-01-2012 12:14 AM)Giratina88 Wrote: [ -> ]Really? I though scandinavian countries managed to resolve that issue?
The scandinavian countries seem to have resolved many issues. Still, the suicide rate there is pretty high....
My opinion about politics. No matter if we are talking about Greece or the USA, Italy or France, it's just a pointless game among the rich and powerful about how many lies they can make the people believe. The same greedy men caring usually only for their own profit or their power. Not even worthy of discussion. At least in most democratic states. Not that the other political systems are better. All of them just distribute 95% of the goods a country produces to the powerful ones and give some shitty free "education" and "hospitalization" to the people and claim they care.....
Fun fact, democracy is supposed to mean that the people are the ones that decide about the state. And how? By voting.... What is voting? Simply choosing our representatives for the parliament, where they decide and do whatever the hell they want about the goverment and the state. Democracy is the political system of the people,yet they only choose some other guys to "represent" their opinions and beliefs. How ridiculous is that? And we don't even know if they don't change the results to serve their own purposes....
Scandinavian countries have built their economies on the excess produced by either offshore colonies or fossil fuels thus they're on a different league than Greece whose hellenic history may be millenia-old yet its history as a state is merely 190 years, and this including the germanic kings' reigns, world wars, the civil war, the military junta.
(31-01-2012 01:55 AM)Divided by Zer0 Wrote: [ -> ] (31-01-2012 12:14 AM)Giratina88 Wrote: [ -> ]Really? I though scandinavian countries managed to resolve that issue?
The scandinavian countries seem to have resolved many issues. Still, the suicide rate there is pretty high....
My opinion about politics. No matter if we are talking about Greece or the USA, Italy or France, it's just a pointless game among the rich and powerful about how many lies they can make the people believe. [...]
The english speakers got a matching proverb though:
"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"
I'm afraid we're well past the
twice, therefore people should direct the blame to themselves as well at some point.
Our politicians, worldwide, are as good as we want them to be, and
we is not you, me or some friend of ours, it's the majority. This majority is, more often, people not in our bubble of the world, not the kind of persons we deal with everyday, yet they are real, they're adults, and responsible for their actions at all times.
Quote:Fun fact, democracy is supposed to mean that the people are the ones that decide about the state. And how? By voting.... What is voting? Simply choosing our representatives for the parliament, where they decide and do whatever the hell they want about the goverment and the state. Democracy is the political system of the people,yet they only choose some other guys to "represent" their opinions and beliefs. How ridiculous is that? And we don't even know if they don't change the results to serve their own purposes....
For the time being, the human species cannot act as a beehive, the technology of today isn't mature enough, and we don't have as many slaves to work for us while we practice politics as the ancient Greeks did.
Technology will, or may, allow for a hive-mind in the future, but we still need instantaneous decisions every day, and in order to be able to make such decisions, we unfortunately need representatives, our duty being to select the right ones and demand the reforms required for their control.
I have a proverb that I
always use in such discussions:
«Κατά τα βόδια και ο βουκόλος» (= "The oxen have a matching oxherd")
(31-01-2012 03:15 AM)Arty2 Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Fun fact, democracy is supposed to mean that the people are the ones that decide about the state. And how? By voting.... What is voting? Simply choosing our representatives for the parliament, where they decide and do whatever the hell they want about the goverment and the state. Democracy is the political system of the people,yet they only choose some other guys to "represent" their opinions and beliefs. How ridiculous is that? And we don't even know if they don't change the results to serve their own purposes....
For the time being, the human species cannot act as a beehive, the technology of today isn't mature enough, and we don't have as many slaves to work for us while we practice politics as the ancient Greeks did.
Technology will, or may, allow for a hive-mind in the future, but we still need instantaneous decisions every day, and in order to be able to make such decisions, we unfortunately need representatives, our duty being to select the right ones and demand the reforms required for their control.
You know what we should do? We should be like ancient Athens and have that whole direct democracy thingy. I've been learning about Athens in history class and at the time nobody else practiced that kind of government. I truly think it is amazing that the ancient people were able to come up with a government that does not involve tyrannical rule or corruption of the system. After all, if we all got to vote, than everything would turn out better for the middle class and poor, because 1% of people own 75% of the wealth in our country, and they control it too. This works quite directly with the Mormon church as well. Did you know that in the Mormon church people have power depending on how much money they have? Its true. Which is why Mitt Romney (or "Mittens") is a bishop. But back to my point, I think it would be fair for all if we just went back to that old standard of Athenian direct democracy.
(30-01-2012 11:38 PM)herooftime Wrote: [ -> ] (30-01-2012 11:25 PM)christos21 Wrote: [ -> ]Giratina88,you're very lucky when it comes to politics.The reason is pretty simple: USA has significant impact on everything it happens around the world because its politicians were trying to do the best for their country(although this is often destructive for other countries such as Iraq,Afghanistan etc.)...
Then may I remind you that a large percentage of people in the USA doesn't have free medical care only because they aren't rich enough? The American Dream exists only for a minority.
I don't want to repeat myself. I told you my thoughts about how politics concerns both politicians and citizens. The truth of the matter is, we are lucky in the sense that -apart from the problems our country is facing for whatever reasons- we have free education and hospitalization (although people DO pay for them through taxes, aren't they?). Americans don't. Weird, huh? Not bad, though.
We are supposed to have free education and medical care,we don't really have.This is easily proved by the amount of people who go to private schools to learn foreign languages or by the amount of students at high school who go to private schools in order to have a better chance of getting to university.Hospitalization is free but at least from what i've seen it's not trustworthy.There are still doctors who want extra money for their job(φακελακια).Last but not least,i didn't say that our parents haven't paid taxes for all of these things we are supposed to have but i would be a filthy lier if i had said that every simple person has paid taxes in this country.
P.S: When it comes to the American Dream,i agree that you must be lucky(or wealthy) to make it real but at least people in America can have a dream in their country while we don't.Why shall i study hard when the basic salary is 592 euro?